Michael Bertenshaw interview by Tony Webb
Michael Bertenshaw is one of the UK's finest stage and screen actors. He has starred in countless television programmes, including Doctor Who and A Touch of Frost; although many will know him from his regular appearances at Shakespeare’s Globe Theatre.
I was keen to discuss his participation in the first production of All’s Well That Ends Well to be staged there.....
‘So, how was first night?’
‘It was great. Thanks to the Globe’s audience of aficionados, there’s always a huge, warm, supportive surge, on which the show just surfs in. This time was special, too, because, as with Henry V111, last year, All’s Well That Ends Well is a play rarely performed, so it had generated an additional buzz of interest. Of course, one can get plays wrong and sense the audience’s disappointment, but we came out satisfied and proud. In the bar, afterwards, one of the younger cast members said: “it’s funny, isn’t it? we’re going to have a nice summer. At seven o’clock, this evening, we didn’t know what sort of a summer it was going to be.”
I was busting to meet an audience. For five weeks, we’d been rehearsing, with the director as our only mirror, and the joy of it, for me, is that suddenly you’ve got 1700 new pairs of eyes and ears who’ve arrived, largely without pre-conceptions. You’re responsible for giving them a good evening, but aware, as a performer, that they don’t really know the story, so you have to throw your mind back to what’s essential; consequently, the story feels clearer, to oneself, and things that have become jaded, during rehearsal, are fresh and alive again. It’s really wonderful if it goes well and it did!’
‘Your performance as Sir Thomas Lovell, in last season’s Henry VIII, was pricelessly funny and you also bring plenty of humour, in All’s Well That Ends Well, to the role of Lafeu. Do you relish the opportunity to make an audience laugh?’
‘Yes and thank you! Laughter’s something to relish, although risky, because it’s great when it works, but rather obvious and embarrassing when it doesn’t! In a serious drama, you don’t get a barometer of success or failure, other than coughing, shuffling and the rustling of sweet papers, all of which are, of course, bad news.’
‘….and I suppose it would be difficult to imagine a better comic adversary than James Garnon, as Parolles’
‘Jimmy’s terrific, yes. A joy.’
‘Despite his hostility toward Parolles, Lafeu is, to my mind, a likeable fellow, with a dogged determination to see a just outcome, for all concerned.’
'I agree. There’s a social gap between them and Lafeu would be incensed if someone like Parolles decided they were his equal; and, of course, Parolles behaves like an idiot, but once he has learnt his lesson, Lafeu is glad to meet him again. He offers to feed him and invites him back into his own household. I like his good natured concern for Helena, the king and Bertram. As for Parolles, Lafeu is quite happy to mix with him, as long as he knows his place! All quite endearing qualities, I think. It’s true that he’s given to sudden flare-ups, but I’m sure he would make an interesting dinner guest!’
‘Since we’re discussing Lafeu, his name can be spelt in two ways. You favour a U, as opposed to a W. Is there a reason for that?... or perhaps it’s just a personal preference?’
‘I actually made a bit of a stand, because it seemed so obvious, to me, that it should be spelt Lafeu, which relates to the French word for fire and helps to describe an old codger, with a short fuse. Incidentally, that’s another thing I like about him.’
‘I understand that All’s Well That Ends Well is now referred to as a 'problem play'. Is this your view, also, or do you see it as unambiguously a comedy?’
‘Having performed a couple of the problem plays now, I’m inclined to go with the view of our director, John Dove (who also directed Measure For Measure, at The Globe, a few years ago), which is that the problem plays have comic elements, but are very different from the broader untroubled comedies, such as As You Like It and Twelfth Night. Those are, perhaps, closer to farce and lend themselves to a more knockabout, sunny, approach, in the playing, but the problem plays tend to have higher stakes. In works such as All’s Well That Ends Well, people are in situations where their lives are under threat and question, so John Dove thinks the way to play them is as thrillers. The story should be clear, fast-moving and tense - very much in the Hitchcock mode. Funny things happen along the way, but must not be allowed to obscure the forward thrust of the story-line.’
‘Remembering the wealth of dialogue required for Shakespeare seems, to me, an achievement in itself. Do you ever wonder whether actors’ brains are ‘wired’ differently from those of their audience?’
‘Now that you’ve asked the question, I find myself wondering! Within the profession, there are actors who seem to have little trouble remembering their lines and those who find it a real struggle. Sometimes, I find it difficult myself, but, not knowing how other people function, I have no idea whether that’s bad wiring or laziness and lack of commitment! Perhaps it’s the case that most people could learn dialogue, but only the ones who enjoy acting bother to develop that area of their brain, and there will always be people who are better than others. For comparison, because someone can pick out Baa Baa Blacksheep on the piano doesn’t mean that, with sufficient application, they could become a concert pianist. So yes, it could be that actors brains are ‘wired’ differently.’
‘In Bill Bryson’s book, he defends the view that Shakespeare’s plays are his work, alone (others having suggested that they may have been produced by a team, working under a single name).[i] Do you have your own take on this?’
‘It’s possible, I suppose, that there might have been a team. Painters in that period often worked as a kind of production line, with the nominal artist having specialised apprentices, who would draw flowers, or hands and those areas would be allocated out. Now you’ve set me wondering if, perhaps, the works of Noel Coward and J.M.Barrie were written by committee, but sadly they’re also dead and we won’t be able to ask them. Of course, I could make a name for myself, in academic circles, by proposing this as a theory! I’m happy, though, to believe Shakespeare wrote them, with the exception of Henry VIII, which is widely thought to have been written with John Fletcher. Incidentally, Fletcher’s contribution includes a long description of the coronation, which was for a character called Third Gentleman, but in our production, I was asked to adopt it as an extension of Sir Thomas Lovell, to resolve a casting problem and prevent expenditure on yet another costume!’
‘How vividly do you recall your first performance at the Globe and could you describe how it felt?’
‘My memory of my first performance is a bit vague, but I know I was bowled over by the building. I’d never, actually, visited it before and now I’m a total convert! It’s a glorious, solid, dependable, wonderful building and within a few days, I found myself hugging one of the huge oak columns in the tiring house and saying “God, I love this place!”, which is not the sort of thing I usually do! That feeling has stayed with me. I go out on stage, before the enthusiastic crowd and feel incredibly lucky. We’re spared the worst excesses of concept productions, and the attention to the text is meticulous. It’s just a bunch of actors showing off, with varying degrees of confidence, in an amazing space, buoyed up by an amazing audience, as we tell stories written by an amazing genius, or, of course, committee of hacks, if Bill Bryson is wrong!’
‘I’ve heard other actors say they have found it slightly unsettling, to see so many individual faces, within the audience. Clearly, it offers a different theatrical experience. On balance, does that help or hinder?’
‘For me, it helps. The close presence of the audience can be slightly alarming for newcomers, but it’s mainly exhilarating and the encouragement is palpable. If you’re not performing for a live audience, you might as well be recording it, and at the Globe, you’re in dialogue with them. You’re telling them stuff and can see whether they’re getting it. The audience is far more immediate and personally involved with you than anywhere else I’ve worked and so far I’ve loved it.’
‘Presumably, though, you’d need to be something of an extrovert?’
‘There are many different personality types among actors and I guess the Globe suits some, but not others. We’re not necessarily all extroverts, though. By definition, extroverts need others to relate to, in order to feel fulfilled. Introverts, on the other hand, are more concerned, with their own development and gravitate only toward those who can help with that. I am quite shy, socially, and worry that I might say the wrong thing, so for me to be given a script is wonderful. It means I can have the confidence to show off on stage and share what I do. At Stratford East, I’ve done a lot of panto’ and that bemuses people who know me, because I’m otherwise very quiet, so that, I suppose, makes me a shy extrovert.’
‘You devote much time, I understand, to helping others overcome their fear of public speaking. Would it be possible to offer some instant advice?’
‘Don’t be stodgy and well-behaved. Engage with your audience, preferably via stories and your own passion, for your material. If your focus strays off the material and onto how you’re faring, self-consciousness and the fear of rejection set in. Immerse yourself in your material.’
‘Your talent for comedy is obvious, but which performers make you laugh and would it be true to say that most of the 'greats' have passed on?’
‘I tend to wince at acerbic, cruel, comedy. I prefer it to be celebratory, observational, absurd, and character based. Of course, many greats have passed on, but I think there are plenty of very funny performers still with us. My favourites are Harry Hill (hit and miss, but the hits are brilliant!), Eddie Izzard, Simon Amstell, Reeves and Mortimer, Armstrong and Miller, Harry Enfield, and Paul Whitehouse. There are lots of series I like, as well, including Father Ted, The IT Crowd, and One Foot In The Grave, together with the great American sit-coms, like Friends and Cheers.
Also movie actors such as Steve Martin, Leslie Nielsen, Steve Carell, and Christopher Guest.’
‘I was pleased to read that you’ll be appearing, again, in Anne Boleyn.[ii] That was such a huge hit last season and its writer, Howard Brenton, had much to say, within the play, about religious conflict. Do you share his, apparently, secular take on matters past and present?’
‘Yes. I’m bemused by religious conflict. I remember some comedian talking about the amount of bloodshed and destruction caused by religion and remarking that you don’t ever see headlines about bloody conflicts between atheists and agnostics.’
'I’m sure that many have similar concerns and in this age of, so called, honour killings, it occurs to me that much of Shakespeare’s work remains very pertinent, because he chose to deal with love, across the divide.'
‘I agree that his work remains current, in that he addressed timeless relationship issues and the characters are credible, too’
'Some might argue that the brutality, in Shakespeare’s work, should be less graphically portrayed, or, where possible, implied. Do you think the approach of directors is sometimes gratuitous, particularly for a younger audience?’
‘It’s not to my taste, so I stay away, but some people clearly enjoy it and I don’t suppose it matters, much. I don’t think everything has to be done with a younger audience in mind anyway, although with Shakespeare appearing on the school syllabus, it could make economic sense for a theatre to gear its productions toward them. I’m guessing that you’re referring to last year’s Macbeth, which I didn’t see, so can’t really comment on. I’m not a great one for blood and gore, but I’d hate to live in a world where every movie had to carry a U certificate.’
‘As is the case, with most Globe productions, the cast engages in a very amusing dance routine, at the end of All’s Well That Ends Well. Is that something you generally enjoy? I imagine that, after performing for more than two hours, many performers would feel rather tired?’
‘I love it and I’ve never heard any actor complain, seriously, about having to do it. Obviously, there’s a bit of banter and good-natured “oh God, do we have to?” in the early stages, but ultimately I think it’s a great way to celebrate the company feeling and enhance the curtain call.’
‘You recently played Ralph Miliband, in C4’s Miliband of Brothers. Has it influenced your opinion of his sons? Perhaps you’ve developed a slight affinity?’
‘I did end up feeling that the younger son would have more humour and oomph. I was glad that Ed won, over his older-brother, in the leadership vote and it seems to me that’s how siblings often are. The older one forges ahead, winning his privileges and spurs, through application and serious intent, then the younger surges through the breech, with less angst and more apparent charisma.
I’ve no idea what the Milibands are really like, though. That was just my impression from doing the piece!’
‘Your TV and film appearances have been many and varied. Is there a favourite?’
‘I’ll go with the one we’ve just been discussing. Ralph Miliband was great to do and I liked the finished result. Others have been good but that’s recent in my mind and I enjoyed the part. The director and the brothers were huge fun to work with too!’
‘Starring with John Culshaw and Debra Stephenson must have been fun. Has it inspired you to try a few impressions?’
‘Not really. I sometimes, approach a part thinking “Oh, it’s sort of a so and so kind of part” and do try playing it like someone specific. The thing is, I’m such a lousy impressionist that no-one knows who I’m doing and I just claim it as my own invention!’
‘If you were offered a role, in one of the soaps, Eastenders perhaps, would you be interested? I can definitely picture you at the bar, in the Queen Vic.’
‘I’ve done guest roles, on most of the soaps, but to be a regular, with regular work and good pay, is something most actors would crave. Once there, of course, many refer to the contract as golden handcuffs and it’s true that soap regulars often, upon leaving, find they can’t get away from the brand association, so take that as a maybe. On balance, though, I’d probably be unable to resist the money!’
‘Are there other exciting projects in the offing?'
‘No. I rarely know what I’m going to do next.’
‘And finally, what do you think Sir Thomas Lovell would have had to say about the royal wedding?’
‘He’d have been beside himself with joy. I didn’t watch the coverage, though, so couldn’t really elaborate with a riff, even if I possessed John Fletcher’s gift of the gab.’
‘Pity. I was looking forward to that! Thank you anyway’
'You’re welcome.'
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